Toronto Taxi Prices

Peterpaul

Hi guys I dont really post much but I do view a lot of the threads and try to learn as much as possible as there are obviously some very knowledgable people on here.

The main purpose of this post is to ask for some information. I've managed to save up some money as ever since I left school (im 25 now) i've always wanted to have my own business. I know some people who have their own business and am under no illusions as to the amount of work and effort that has to be put into it, especially to get it up and running and established.

I'll be honest and say that i've never had my own business as such as up until recently i've already had a steady job so always felt it was a bit of a risk to leave that to start up a business with no practical experience of running a proper business. However I was recently paid off and thought about starting up, however the current economic climate has definetly put me of off starting up (for now) but I have also noted the poor interest on saving's accounts (i've used up my ISA allowance and dont fancy the stock market at the moment).

So I was thinking what the best thing to do with my money until I come up with a solid business idea and "go for it" would be basically keep it safe and try and "earn" as much from it as possible. I know someone who has some taxi's on the road and he rents them out for a certain sum every week. However if there are repairs etc he has to pay for these. His drivers only pay for the hire of the "package" that is the car, plate, radios and of course they have to pay for their own fuel.

To get to the point (sorry for waffling) i've been offered another job and i think im going to take it so I wont really have the time to deal with getting repairs done, arranging for MOT's, new tyres and break pads to be fitted etc. Also I dont really have the proper connections that would allow me to get a taxi on the ramp in a garage ASAP after any fault occurred which could mean it could be off the road for days so it would not be making any money on those days.

I was thinking about instead of getting a taxi on the road buying a taxi plate. The problem is it seems to be a bit of a "shady world". By that I mean absolutely no disrespect to drivers or owner/operators etc. Its just that from what i've found out, these plates, technically, should have no monetry value. Again this is just what i've found out and might very well be wrong, but apparantly "in the beginning" a council will look at how many taxi's are required on the roads and issue a certain amount of plates. People then apply for these plates and although i say no monetry value they may have to pay a small fee at first for council admin fees or whatever, but apparantly this is just a few hundred pounds if that. They then have a plate and thats fine. However once all the plates are issued then if someone wants one from a person who has been issued one then really they have to pay for it. Its not just a few hundred pounds either some of them are changing hands for around the 20 grand mark. If you cant afford to buy the plate from someone then you can rent it for around 100 pounds per week. Now I was looking at this and started to think thats 5 grand per year, which equates to 25% interest? That cant be bad where do I sign up to buy a plate from someone?

The problem I have is that the whole thing seems a little "corrupt" as I've heard that council officials made sure that people they knew got some of the plates (not all of them of course) so thats basically someone has paid a couple of hundred pounds and then they either sell it for 20 grand or rent it out for 100 pounds per week. Again I didnt have too much of a problem with that as sometimes it does really pay to be in something from the ground floor so good on the people who foresaw the business opportunity and got the plates early. I also heard that a lot of taxi company's are actually "owned" by gangster etc, although their name may not be above the door, they are behind it and because it is a cash buiness can use it for money laundering etc.

Now as I say I was thinking about buying a plate and renting it out to someone who wants to be their own boss and have a taxi on the road but maybe cant afford or has no desire to buy a plate. This apprealed to me as there are no maintenance fees etc and much less hassle than having an actual taxi on the road. The main thing that has put me off is that i've heard although you have paid 20 grand for the plate, technically you dont actually own it, you have been "issued" it from the council and it can be taken off you at anytime for whatever reason. i.e. say you were involved in a road traffic accident and done for dangerous driving, this would be you now with a criminal record and as such could be deemed not to be a "fit and proper person". As a result your plate which you have paid 20 grand for can be taken off you. As i said they are not supposed to have any monetry value but to get one you had to hand over the cash.

Sorry for making this so long but I was just wondering if anyone can inform me if i am wrong about any of these things or possibly all of them just so that I could make an informed decision about this. I am also trying to bear in mind that it is unlikely I would have the plate taken off me and even if I did, as long as I got 4 or 5 years out of it then it wouldnt actually cost me anything. I was also thinking about putting it in my mothers name but then an accident and resultant charges/convictions can happen to anyone. Any advice on any of these things would be much appreciated, and again sorry if i've bored you all

Lord Harris · #2 20th December 2008, 12:36

Funnily enough you and I are in almost the same position (in terms of age and proposed occupation) albeit I'm going it on my own.

I am familiar with the system you refer to, and you can still turn a handsome profit from it but I'd rather be building up my own little brand to be honest. The plate system, well yeah local councils being corrupt on the matter is no big suprise to me.

I am deciding wether to go down the 5 year HP route or save a bit more and buy a much more modestly priced model that has higher running costs. To turn a nice £££ you need two on the road, one being an MPV.

Burden · #3 20th December 2008, 14:39

Ive worked in 2 different taxi companies and family own another.

You will find it very hard to rent a plate unless in London or another high price area rather than a local town and council for £100.

The drivers who cant afford can ALL afford a plate but not the full package. They want a Good Running Car / Plate / Radio all ready to go. Around my area thats £110-150 for a week usually. You can bet your arse you will be dragged out of bed at 3am when the car breaks down and the drivers wants a new one or wont pay the money for the package. Bearing in mind if its with a company you take the radio out you will be liable to pay the radio regardless which is discounted the more you think through.

But yea i doubt you'd get £100 a week just for a plate.

Magsite · #4 20th December 2008, 16:48

As a side line but still inline with taxi's, has anyone tried selling/buying advertising on a Taxi? Not sure how much a person would charge, any idea's to say, have the rear of the car where you can add info like a domain name?

Peterpaul · #5 20th December 2008, 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Harris

Funnily enough you and I are in almost the same position (in terms of age and proposed occupation) albeit I'm going it on my own.

I am familiar with the system you refer to, and you can still turn a handsome profit from it but I'd rather be building up my own little brand to be honest. The plate system, well yeah local councils being corrupt on the matter is no big suprise to me.

I am deciding wether to go down the 5 year HP route or save a bit more and buy a much more modestly priced model that has higher running costs. To turn a nice £££ you need two on the road, one being an MPV.

Thanks for your reply m8, yeah I heard that soon its going to be a requirement for taxi companies (although not necessarily taxi owners) to have a certain amount of their cars to be MPV's that can transport disabled people. What I mean by that is if you have a plate/car package and go with "xyz taxi's ltd" for the radio package etc then that company must have a certain per centage of their cars being mpv's.

I think you have to be careful what you buy as I know some people get 6 seaters and some get 8 seaters. I think there is a substantial difference in running costs.

It would be great to have a distant relative in the council licensing department who "seen the need" for a few more plates and as if by magic the were issued to us lol. It seems to be another one of those enterprises where it is a case of who you know rather than what you know.

Burden · #6 20th December 2008, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peterpaul

I think you have to be careful what you buy as I know some people get 6 seaters and some get 8 seaters. I think there is a substantial difference in running costs.

This is only so true and can cause some problems.

- People sometimes think.. well its Fare + Half for People Carrier (5+ Seats) so it works out on the running costs. But if your with a standard company you will do hires for normal cars at normal fare then when a job for 5+ seater is phoned in you will do it. Another thing you need to factor in is dead time / no hire / running for people carrier jobs etc.

Lord Harris · #7 20th December 2008, 19:13

Does anyone know the credit situation with hire purchase at the moment?

I have a good credit rating but I'd bee suprised if they haven't upped the lending cirteria?

Peterpaul · #8 20th December 2008, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by i234i

- People sometimes think.. well its Fare + Half for People Carrier (5+ Seats) so it works out on the running costs. But if your with a standard company you will do hires for normal cars at normal fare then when a job for 5+ seater is phoned in you will do it. Another thing you need to factor in is dead time / no hire / running for people carrier jobs etc.

Yeah thats sort of what I meant (sorry should have been clearer lol) i.e. an 8 seater can be quite a lot more to run per mile than a 6 seater which in turn is more expensive to run that a saloon car. And at the end of the month it may work out that you have made less with the MPV than you would have with just a saloon car. most of the taxi company's in scotland use skoda octavias, I think if you have a few cars on the road and have a 6 seater or 8 seater that is reasonable on fuel then it will come into its own if you can manage to get a lot of private bookings etc for example taking people to night outs and then picking them up again as you can charge extra but per person it will work out cheaper or the same for the fare. I also heard that some taxi company's can get contracts with hospitals to take things like files etc to other hospitals but im not sure if thats true as surely it would pose security/data protection issues? if it is I cant see it lasting as surely they could email them or something?

As I said I'm thinking of going down the plate route as its less hassle, but if I did get a taxi(s) on the road myself I think i'd stay away from the people carriers unless the company I was with were subsidising me in some way, but thats just me.

The whole thing gets confusing as there are taxis and then there are private hire cars and although i know what the difference is (private hire cannot be flagged down or sit at ranks, it has to be pre-booked or phoned) I dont know how much private hire plates change hands for I've been told alsorts of figures by different people and someone even told me that you just apply to the council and as long as you're not a criminal and your car is suitable then you just pay a leasing fee to the council providing they do not deem there are too many on the area already. But i've never heard of anyone renting out a private hire plate but the plates that everyone rents out is the taxi plate which is usually around the 20 grand mark.

pinkjazz · #9 29th July 2009, 11:43

Hi, I am a taxi owner operator, trainer and assessor in the industry. I just thought I would offer some realism to the forum. You need to check if your licensing authority is deregulated. If it is, then you dont have to buy an existing plate, the council will have to issue you with one if both you and your vehicle are compliant with the licensing regulations. The vehicle will have to be tested, be compliant and you will have to hold a valid hackney or private hire licence for that area. In my area (which is deregulated) new operators can only put on a wheelchair accessible vehicle. Theres a difference between wheelchair accessible and MPV. Also to be able to put it in your mothers name, she will also have to be a licenced driver for that authority. I would advise you to lease a car before you buy as the cost of running your own taxi can be huge. Insurance, tax, mot, licence fees, breakdowns, servicing and repairs. The general public seem to think that taxi drivers earn lots of money because they get in, go a few mile down the road and hand over a tenner. They think,'he must be earning a fortune' what they dont realise is that youve been sitting on the rank for an hour and a half and you will go back and sit there again for an hour or so and get a job for 3 or 4 pounds. you work it out, because thats the reality. The deregulation of taxis in this country has allowed so many to be licenced that drivers have been reduced to earning less than the minimum wage. My income after expenses last year was zero. Most of the drivers I know are claiming some kind of benefits and those that dont, are working a very unhealthy 90 hours a week to pay the mortgage. Im sorry but that really is the reality.

Peterpaul

Hi guys I dont really post much but I do view a lot of the threads and try to learn as much as possible as there are obviously some very knowledgable people on here.

The main purpose of this post is to ask for some information. I've managed to save up some money as ever since I left school (im 25 now) i've always wanted to have my own business. I know some people who have their own business and am under no illusions as to the amount of work and effort that has to be put into it, especially to get it up and running and established.

I'll be honest and say that i've never had my own business as such as up until recently i've already had a steady job so always felt it was a bit of a risk to leave that to start up a business with no practical experience of running a proper business. However I was recently paid off and thought about starting up, however the current economic climate has definetly put me of off starting up (for now) but I have also noted the poor interest on saving's accounts (i've used up my ISA allowance and dont fancy the stock market at the moment).

So I was thinking what the best thing to do with my money until I come up with a solid business idea and "go for it" would be basically keep it safe and try and "earn" as much from it as possible. I know someone who has some taxi's on the road and he rents them out for a certain sum every week. However if there are repairs etc he has to pay for these. His drivers only pay for the hire of the "package" that is the car, plate, radios and of course they have to pay for their own fuel.

To get to the point (sorry for waffling) i've been offered another job and i think im going to take it so I wont really have the time to deal with getting repairs done, arranging for MOT's, new tyres and break pads to be fitted etc. Also I dont really have the proper connections that would allow me to get a taxi on the ramp in a garage ASAP after any fault occurred which could mean it could be off the road for days so it would not be making any money on those days.

I was thinking about instead of getting a taxi on the road buying a taxi plate. The problem is it seems to be a bit of a "shady world". By that I mean absolutely no disrespect to drivers or owner/operators etc. Its just that from what i've found out, these plates, technically, should have no monetry value. Again this is just what i've found out and might very well be wrong, but apparantly "in the beginning" a council will look at how many taxi's are required on the roads and issue a certain amount of plates. People then apply for these plates and although i say no monetry value they may have to pay a small fee at first for council admin fees or whatever, but apparantly this is just a few hundred pounds if that. They then have a plate and thats fine. However once all the plates are issued then if someone wants one from a person who has been issued one then really they have to pay for it. Its not just a few hundred pounds either some of them are changing hands for around the 20 grand mark. If you cant afford to buy the plate from someone then you can rent it for around 100 pounds per week. Now I was looking at this and started to think thats 5 grand per year, which equates to 25% interest? That cant be bad where do I sign up to buy a plate from someone?

The problem I have is that the whole thing seems a little "corrupt" as I've heard that council officials made sure that people they knew got some of the plates (not all of them of course) so thats basically someone has paid a couple of hundred pounds and then they either sell it for 20 grand or rent it out for 100 pounds per week. Again I didnt have too much of a problem with that as sometimes it does really pay to be in something from the ground floor so good on the people who foresaw the business opportunity and got the plates early. I also heard that a lot of taxi company's are actually "owned" by gangster etc, although their name may not be above the door, they are behind it and because it is a cash buiness can use it for money laundering etc.

Now as I say I was thinking about buying a plate and renting it out to someone who wants to be their own boss and have a taxi on the road but maybe cant afford or has no desire to buy a plate. This apprealed to me as there are no maintenance fees etc and much less hassle than having an actual taxi on the road. The main thing that has put me off is that i've heard although you have paid 20 grand for the plate, technically you dont actually own it, you have been "issued" it from the council and it can be taken off you at anytime for whatever reason. i.e. say you were involved in a road traffic accident and done for dangerous driving, this would be you now with a criminal record and as such could be deemed not to be a "fit and proper person". As a result your plate which you have paid 20 grand for can be taken off you. As i said they are not supposed to have any monetry value but to get one you had to hand over the cash.

Sorry for making this so long but I was just wondering if anyone can inform me if i am wrong about any of these things or possibly all of them just so that I could make an informed decision about this. I am also trying to bear in mind that it is unlikely I would have the plate taken off me and even if I did, as long as I got 4 or 5 years out of it then it wouldnt actually cost me anything. I was also thinking about putting it in my mothers name but then an accident and resultant charges/convictions can happen to anyone. Any advice on any of these things would be much appreciated, and again sorry if i've bored you all

Lord Harris · #2 20th December 2008, 12:36

Funnily enough you and I are in almost the same position (in terms of age and proposed occupation) albeit I'm going it on my own.

I am familiar with the system you refer to, and you can still turn a handsome profit from it but I'd rather be building up my own little brand to be honest. The plate system, well yeah local councils being corrupt on the matter is no big suprise to me.

I am deciding wether to go down the 5 year HP route or save a bit more and buy a much more modestly priced model that has higher running costs. To turn a nice £££ you need two on the road, one being an MPV.

Burden · #3 20th December 2008, 14:39

Ive worked in 2 different taxi companies and family own another.

You will find it very hard to rent a plate unless in London or another high price area rather than a local town and council for £100.

The drivers who cant afford can ALL afford a plate but not the full package. They want a Good Running Car / Plate / Radio all ready to go. Around my area thats £110-150 for a week usually. You can bet your arse you will be dragged out of bed at 3am when the car breaks down and the drivers wants a new one or wont pay the money for the package. Bearing in mind if its with a company you take the radio out you will be liable to pay the radio regardless which is discounted the more you think through.

But yea i doubt you'd get £100 a week just for a plate.

Magsite · #4 20th December 2008, 16:48

As a side line but still inline with taxi's, has anyone tried selling/buying advertising on a Taxi? Not sure how much a person would charge, any idea's to say, have the rear of the car where you can add info like a domain name?

Peterpaul · #5 20th December 2008, 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Harris

Funnily enough you and I are in almost the same position (in terms of age and proposed occupation) albeit I'm going it on my own.

I am familiar with the system you refer to, and you can still turn a handsome profit from it but I'd rather be building up my own little brand to be honest. The plate system, well yeah local councils being corrupt on the matter is no big suprise to me.

I am deciding wether to go down the 5 year HP route or save a bit more and buy a much more modestly priced model that has higher running costs. To turn a nice £££ you need two on the road, one being an MPV.

Thanks for your reply m8, yeah I heard that soon its going to be a requirement for taxi companies (although not necessarily taxi owners) to have a certain amount of their cars to be MPV's that can transport disabled people. What I mean by that is if you have a plate/car package and go with "xyz taxi's ltd" for the radio package etc then that company must have a certain per centage of their cars being mpv's.

I think you have to be careful what you buy as I know some people get 6 seaters and some get 8 seaters. I think there is a substantial difference in running costs.

It would be great to have a distant relative in the council licensing department who "seen the need" for a few more plates and as if by magic the were issued to us lol. It seems to be another one of those enterprises where it is a case of who you know rather than what you know.

Burden · #6 20th December 2008, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peterpaul

I think you have to be careful what you buy as I know some people get 6 seaters and some get 8 seaters. I think there is a substantial difference in running costs.

This is only so true and can cause some problems.

- People sometimes think.. well its Fare + Half for People Carrier (5+ Seats) so it works out on the running costs. But if your with a standard company you will do hires for normal cars at normal fare then when a job for 5+ seater is phoned in you will do it. Another thing you need to factor in is dead time / no hire / running for people carrier jobs etc.

Lord Harris · #7 20th December 2008, 19:13

Does anyone know the credit situation with hire purchase at the moment?

I have a good credit rating but I'd bee suprised if they haven't upped the lending cirteria?

Peterpaul · #8 20th December 2008, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by i234i

- People sometimes think.. well its Fare + Half for People Carrier (5+ Seats) so it works out on the running costs. But if your with a standard company you will do hires for normal cars at normal fare then when a job for 5+ seater is phoned in you will do it. Another thing you need to factor in is dead time / no hire / running for people carrier jobs etc.

Yeah thats sort of what I meant (sorry should have been clearer lol) i.e. an 8 seater can be quite a lot more to run per mile than a 6 seater which in turn is more expensive to run that a saloon car. And at the end of the month it may work out that you have made less with the MPV than you would have with just a saloon car. most of the taxi company's in scotland use skoda octavias, I think if you have a few cars on the road and have a 6 seater or 8 seater that is reasonable on fuel then it will come into its own if you can manage to get a lot of private bookings etc for example taking people to night outs and then picking them up again as you can charge extra but per person it will work out cheaper or the same for the fare. I also heard that some taxi company's can get contracts with hospitals to take things like files etc to other hospitals but im not sure if thats true as surely it would pose security/data protection issues? if it is I cant see it lasting as surely they could email them or something?

As I said I'm thinking of going down the plate route as its less hassle, but if I did get a taxi(s) on the road myself I think i'd stay away from the people carriers unless the company I was with were subsidising me in some way, but thats just me.

The whole thing gets confusing as there are taxis and then there are private hire cars and although i know what the difference is (private hire cannot be flagged down or sit at ranks, it has to be pre-booked or phoned) I dont know how much private hire plates change hands for I've been told alsorts of figures by different people and someone even told me that you just apply to the council and as long as you're not a criminal and your car is suitable then you just pay a leasing fee to the council providing they do not deem there are too many on the area already. But i've never heard of anyone renting out a private hire plate but the plates that everyone rents out is the taxi plate which is usually around the 20 grand mark.

pinkjazz · #9 29th July 2009, 11:43

Hi, I am a taxi owner operator, trainer and assessor in the industry. I just thought I would offer some realism to the forum. You need to check if your licensing authority is deregulated. If it is, then you dont have to buy an existing plate, the council will have to issue you with one if both you and your vehicle are compliant with the licensing regulations. The vehicle will have to be tested, be compliant and you will have to hold a valid hackney or private hire licence for that area. In my area (which is deregulated) new operators can only put on a wheelchair accessible vehicle. Theres a difference between wheelchair accessible and MPV. Also to be able to put it in your mothers name, she will also have to be a licenced driver for that authority. I would advise you to lease a car before you buy as the cost of running your own taxi can be huge. Insurance, tax, mot, licence fees, breakdowns, servicing and repairs. The general public seem to think that taxi drivers earn lots of money because they get in, go a few mile down the road and hand over a tenner. They think,'he must be earning a fortune' what they dont realise is that youve been sitting on the rank for an hour and a half and you will go back and sit there again for an hour or so and get a job for 3 or 4 pounds. you work it out, because thats the reality. The deregulation of taxis in this country has allowed so many to be licenced that drivers have been reduced to earning less than the minimum wage. My income after expenses last year was zero. Most of the drivers I know are claiming some kind of benefits and those that dont, are working a very unhealthy 90 hours a week to pay the mortgage. Im sorry but that really is the reality.

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